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than it is at present. I do not say that the system as it has existed hitherto is satisfactory. If I thought it were satisfactory I should oppose this Bill in toto. I do not do that nor do my honourable colleagues. We realise that a considerable part of this measure is desirable in the interests of, and the protection of, mui-tsai. We certainly do not contend that this measure, treating it as a whole, is either unnecessary or undesirable. Your Excellency has referred, incidentally, to certain laws which are stated to have been passed in China. But I can say, Sir, that from all I learn, these laws are no more carried into force and are of no more use than are the laws for the suppression of opium in China, and therefore I think we may treat them as a negative quantity. I think it necessary to say that, because I want to make the position of the unofficial members of this Council perfectly clear. That is all I have to say on Clause 2 of the Bill. I again urge that it is far more emphatic and far more direct to say that "it is hereby declared and enacted," instead of trying to refer to erroneous suppositions of certain persons with reference to the mui-tsai system. I do not think, Sir, it is an erroneous supposition. I believe the custom of China is that the payment of money does confer certain rights for a period of years, at all events till the girl attains the age of eighteen years, the marriageable age. I do not think it is at all incorrect. It is not an erroneous supposition; it is a true supposition. The Chinese custom, as I understand it, undoubtedly is that the payment of money does confer certain rights on the person who pays that money. I cannot see any good or any advantage to be got by saying that people erroneously suppose a thing, when, as I understand the position, they do not erroneously suppose the thing at all. That is all I have to say Sir, with regard to my amendment as to Clause 2.
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL: One appreciates the desire to make this clause more direct and arresting, but I think the omission of the preamble obscures one very im- portant point, namely, that the clause does not make any change in the law what- ever; for the payment of money in return for obtaining the possession of a child has never, in Hong Kong, conferred any rights whatever on the purchaser. I must confess I am rather surprised to hear the hon. member question the correctness of the preamble and suggest that it is not an erroneous supposition at all and that payment does confer rights. We are speaking, Sir, in this clause of English law, Hong Kong law, and whatever the rights may be in China they do not concern us. It is undoubtedly an erroneous supposition that payment of money for a child confers, or has ever conferred any rights on the purchaser, and I think it is important to keep the preamble in this clause to make that point clear.
H.E. THE GOVERNOR: I think the hon. member's objection will be met if we cut out the word "erroneously which means nothing very important from my point of view, but seems to mean a great deal from the hon member's point of view. There is no question, I think, that certain persons have made this erroneous supposition. HON. MR. HOLYOAK: Is it not very important that we should at this juncture protest in the most vigorous and comprehensive terms against the erroneous charges levelled against us in the Press of England ?-greatly exaggerated and largely untrue charges. I found, as no doubt you did, Sir, when at Home in the past few months, constant references to "Hong Kong slavery
and even to an open slave market-statements which were as preposterous in conception as they were untrue in fact. It is due to the Colony and the Good Government of the Colony that these base insinuations and positive misrepresentations of the truth should be contested in the most vigorous form. Therefore I wholly agree
with your Excellency that the term erroneous whether it is employed in the Bill or not does convey the conviction of this Council with regard to public opinion at Home which has been fostered upon gross misrepresentations of the truth.
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H.E. THE GOVERNOR: The erroneous supposers are the Chinese who paid money for mui-tsai.
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL: And the Europeans who imagined that the sale of human beings was recognised here by English law: they made the same erroneous supposition and they have called upon us to change the law, when, as a matter of fact, there is no need to change the law, because the law has never recognised any rights whatever.
HON. MR. POLLOCK: I am afraid members of Parliament do not recognise them- selves as my friend doesas certain persons."
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H.E. THE GOVERNOR: I confess I did not either. What the Hon. Mr. Holyoak has said makes me think it wise to retain the words “erroneously " and I think it must remove the objections of the Hon. Mr. Pollock. There is no question that the opinions of members of Parliament and others at Home to whom he referred were 66 erroneous."
HON. MR. POLLOCK did not press his amendment, and it was agreed that clause 2 should stand part of the Bill.
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HON. MR. POLLOCK : With regard to Clauses 4 and 5 I have to move an amendment. That Clauses 4 and 5 be removed into part 3 of the present Bill. As I have already explained, Sir, in my opening speech, the unofficial members of Council have spen a considerable amount of time on this Bill. As regards myself it would be more correct to say that I have spent days than hours on this measure and the construction thereof. And the conclusion the unofficial members have come to on this Bill is that these clauses 4 and 5 are undesirable, unnecessary, and unworkable, but, Sir, whether we are right or wrong in our views, we think we have the right to demand that our views on Clauses 4 and 5 should be submitted to the Secretary of State for the Colonies before these clauses are rammed through this Council against the unanimous wishes of the unofficial members by use of the official vote. Your Excellency has stated that Clauses 4 and 5 must be passed as they stand, because of the instructions received from the Secretary of State. It seems to me to be imputing an extraordinarily autocratic temperament to that high official to suppose that he desires these instruc- tions to be carried out immediately, instead of with the delay of two or three months
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